בתשובה לAMR, 01/07/04 2:25
כולה חומה 229693
מעולם לא טענתי כי אין צורך בגדר וברור כי הקמת הגדר תגרום "אי נוחות" לתושבים הפלסטינאים הנמצאים בקרבתה.
אולם גם אם נתעלם מענינים "פעוטים" כגון זכויות אדם, יש לזכור כי ה"ריאל פוליטיק" קובעת כי יום אחד נאלץ לדבר אם האנשים בצידה השני של הגדר ועל כן עלינו לצמצם למינימום ההכרחי את הפגיעה בהם, יש לקבוע את תואי הגדר על סמך שיקולים עניניים ולא פוליטיים או רגשיים.
נ.ב: אם השימוש התכוף שלי בגרשיים מפריע למישהו קבלו התנצלותי מראש.
שמתי לב כי ישנם פה אנשים אשר דברים מעין אלה מפריעים להם.
כולה חומה 229729
Now that you have clarified yours approach I do not think that major disputed issues left here, at least from my side.

Basically that is my approach as well namely: we do need the “Fence” but we have to make sure that it is creating as little inconvenience as possible to the Palestinians while keeping our utmost important security issues intact. After all we do not having a war with the Palestinian population at large.

We definitely do have a war with the Palestinian terror organizations and Phatah-Tunis guys that pushing and encouraging them from behind. Our survival is depending on such realization.

Just to clarify this point, our worst enemy is actually not the Palestinians, even not the Arab countries. Our worst enemy is our broken unity. A united Israel is having no trouble standing firm against any external enemy…and to the otherwise without it.

Our real “Security Fence” is our unity.

כולה חומה 229940
אך ידידי יתכן כי הגענו להסכמה בנושא אחד אך בבואך לברך יצאתה מקלל, משום שבנושא האחדות בעם אינני מסכים אתך כלל ועיקר.
אחדות כפי שמקובל לחשוב עליה וכפי שאני מבין מדבריך היא דבר מסוכן בעיני, וזאת משום שאם "תגרד" קימעה את המילה אחדות תגלה מילים כגון "קונפורמיזם" או "אי קבלת האחר",ואם תמשיך ותפשפש אתה עלול לגלות "פשיזם" וכיוצא בזה...
אני רואה את הכח שלנו כעם דווקא ביכולת שלנו לשמור על פלורליזם גם בזמנים קשים כגון אלו העוברים עלינו כיום. וזאת משום שריבוי דעות בחברה מעלה את הסיכוי שנגיע לפתרונות נכונים וחכמים לבעיותנו.
אגב בשל דעתי זו שהובאה הנ"ל אני אינני אדם אופטימי בימים אלו, משום שהקולות הקוראים למנהיגות חזקה ולאחדות בעם עולים ומתחזקים.
נ.ב:בתגובה זו הרבתי ב"איזמים" ועל כך אני שוב מתנצל.
כולה חומה 230519
I would like to believe that pluralism is my second name, I do believe in possessing open mind, opinions’ exchange and debates. Our democracy, any democracy is fundamentally based on pluralism and debates.

Having said all that, the magic word here as in any other issues is the balance between the public needs and the individuals’ freedom. Here lies the problem. The term “Unity” is may well be related to the public “rights” and that may stand in some instances in the opposite to the individual rights. A careful balance between the two may satisfy both, though that may be coming pretty rare, admittedly.

On its face it seems that Nation’s unity must come on the full expense of the freedom of the individual but that may not being correct in all circumstances.

The difficulties in achieving the said balance is stemming from the difficulty in defining the Public “Rights” meaning namely: who is defining the public “rights”, needs and to what length?
It is relatively easy to come up with the individual rights definitions, when we are dealing with the public, Nation, National “rights” here we may open a full scaled Pandora box.

To answer to that if then it must not lead us into the “petty cash” arguments; we have to jump straight onto the basic of our political form of life namely: our democratic system principles.

Luckily, or unluckily (it is upon the viewer), the task in our case is easier. Any nation that is finding itself under threat to its survival is finding itself defining the National “rights” easier to define and we are in no exception. On the other hand this situation is facing hidden danger in bending the individual right too far. That is exactly the situation with some dictatorships that taking advantage of the threat to the public issue to impose anti individuals or minorities laws.

As well, we should not forget that working for the common public interest is benefiting the individual in the process as a by-product and even more. A few examples: improving the national economic situation is benefiting the individual. Improving on the security and safety of the public is benefiting as well the individual, improving the national education system will result in the same benefit for the individual and those only in naming a few.

Nevertheless, we may put obvious “Red Lines” that crossing them in time of a threat for the national survival and therefore to the individual security may well be able to be considered as working against the public and individuals interests alike.

A few examples may clarify the meaning behind the term “Crossing the Red Lines”:

1. Some professors, academics or public servants that are making there living from the public taxes are appearing abroad and advocating/trumpting against the state of Israel and its democratic elected government in an utmost unbalanced manners presenting the Palestinians misery only, while ignoring Israel’s.
2. Accepting (joyfully) contributions from unidentified sources and sometimes very much identified ones such as Saudi Arabia, France and other European countries for the “New Fund for Israel” that is serving a definite one sided political agenda in Israel against Rightist opponents. An anti democratic act that is in no doubt crossing the border in being Antidemocratic and criminal act alike. This issue is calling for immense investigation and prosecution. Is anybody having the answer why such an investigation was not opened by now?
3. Allowing Knesset members to advocate against the Israeli democracy by being the long and advocators arm of Arafat and Syria. Yes, Azmi Bishara and his chorus of Knesset members’ supporters.
4. Joining a definite Anti Israel Palestinian ISM (read Palestinian not International) organization. Some bunch of Israeli anarchists already joined and are aiding Israel haters in actually destroy Israel from within (sure enough they lured initially to believe in “Human Right” activity but they should know by now who is who there).
5. Advocating against the “Separation Wall”, calling it an “Apartheid Wall”, hundreds of “Peace” (what a joke) activists interfering in erecting this wall, using anarchistic means ignoring completely the value and the diminishing in confrontation between Israelis and terror organization as a result of the ‘Fence”. Some admittedly advocating against the “Fence” it its current rout but many are advocating against a “Wall” any “wall” in any rout.
6. The phenomenon of set-up “Files” against opponents from the other side of the political spectrum as being done by the Law authorities in the “Praklitut” is disgusting. More over it is an anti democratic act and sure enough a criminal one. That issue is requires intense investigation and prosecution.
7. Those cases of refusing Knesset and the military orders - the legitimate rulers in a democracy - should not occurred and happen.
8. The inclination of broadcaster that are funded by the public to insert there personal opinion taking advantage of the stage provided them by the public is insane. Broadcasters and journalist that reporting news should do that in the utmost care and balance. Independent journalists can do their job more freely but then again with and eye towards the public interest and “Unity” requirement in time of war.
9. The Judicial system should take utmost careful steps and appear to the public as balanced as possible. This system should see just and balance as its utmost goal and not let strange consideration being involved in judicial decisions. Unfortunately that is not the case in some instances.
10. The IDF is the only barrier between free Jewish, democratic, existing at all Israel and total disaster and elimination. Nevertheless, just watch the demonization many of our media means are performing against the young soldiers that were send by our legitimate democratic system to do their job and protecting us all. Remember the same demonization done against the American soldiers in Vietnam? If you think that the current Iraqi war is not related, think again, it is. We do not wish the same to happen here.

To summarize it all we could say that almost any debate, on any national issue is legitimate as long as it is done WITHIN the frame of the democratic system using democratic means.
If we to recognize those principle then the road is open for national unity while keeping the individual Human right intact within a reasonable range.


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