בתשובה לנועה, 25/07/23 17:24
סרבני מצפון חרדים וצביעות שמאלנית 760050
נאמר זאת שוב כי המון שכחו - אותם חרדים בדיוק שירתו בצבא כמו כולם עד 1980, שאז בגין פתח את כל המכסות של חברת הלומדים והפטור. אז ההורים של החרדים של היום לא היו פחות יהודים או פחות מסורים ודבקים בתורה או תלמידים פחות חכמים.
הם רק לא היו בטלנים ומשתמטים שמטילים את כל הנטל הכלכלי והבטחוני על שאר החברה בישראל, שישמשו להם כעבדים.

בחוק יסוד לימוד התורה שפרסמו הבוקר, נכתב שזכויות הלומדים יהיו שוות לאלה של החיילים. אני תוהה האם גם הזכות להיקבר בחלקה הצבאית של קריית שאול נכללת בחוק הזה. כי למה לא?
סרבני מצפון חרדים וצביעות שמאלנית 760888
מצטטת מאימייל:

From: ....
Date: Fri, Aug 11, 2023, 12:19 PM

The writer served in the IDF army, it was for me the most difficult period of my life spiritually, I had to deal with things I never believed I would have to. In military training, they are the ones who trained and worked with us, something that shocked me and my friends, we didn't know how to eat it, we were waiting for the day to run away from there, and I will tell you even more that we tried not to eat there because the kosher was not good in our eyes and we could not trust it. My friends who went to the mikvah every day for many long months did not know what a mikvah was unless they came home on vacation. The style of the text was secular which in our eyes is vulgar, the place was secular in the full sense of the word, and I would in no way want my descendants to go to such a place

Those who are doing everything to change the face of ultra-Orthodox society, to kidnap children and young men, are the secularists who impose on our lives a life that for us is forbidden and severe. The secularist, especially the leftist, wants us to live a liberal life, which means recognizing abomination as an acceptable thing, even though our holy Torah calls these abominations, there is no way or possibility to live together in the concepts of the left. Yes, it is possible to live in one country but everyone will live their lifestyle even if it is different from the other

You want ultra-Orthodox in the army, please, build an ultra-Orthodox army, if you don't have such an option, then come with your own claims, you built a secular army beforehand when it was clear that a very significant percentage of the country is ultra-Orthodox and they did not think at all that the army should be adapted to this kind of life, so come with your own claims only.

We are not asking any secularist to change his lifestyle, live how you want, but please don't change our lifestyle. And again, not because we don't want to serve in the army, but because the army is not built for the ultra-Orthodox to be a part of it, every ultra-Orthodox who served in the army came out half promiscuous, he is no longer the same person as he was when he arrived there. In recent years we see this deterioration in a terrible way, many ultra-Orthodox serve, they change their lifestyle. Even those who still feel a sense of belonging to their community, but in their private lives everything is changing, and for that reason alone, a war with the secularists in this matter is preferable, until they realize that, like them, there is the ability to live as a left-wing, anti-religion secularist, the right of an ultra-Orthodox to live as an ultra-Orthodox in everything that is important and necessary to him, to educate his children in his own way, and they did not impose on him a liberal secular lifestyle which in our eyes is desolate and unacceptable.

And as for the government, it is not true that the ultra-Orthodox determine and decide, note, the ultra-Orthodox have been in almost every coalition in the last decades, and have not been able to legislate anything in the most important and necessary areas such as the law of return, the conscription law and other such things. The one and only reason why the ultra-Orthodox prefer the right over the left is due to the right's attitude to the Torah of Israel and keeping its commandments, even those on the right who are secular respect Judaism. On the other hand, the left does everything to trample every trace of Judaism. Let's go back one year when the left ruled, they did everything to erase the Sabbath, the painting of the Western Wall, the conversion, the kosher and everything they could, an ultra-Orthodox cannot sit with such people.

The political reality has proven that the left is capable of neutralizing the ultra-orthodox by joining the Netanyahu government. This is what Bennett and Lapid did a few years ago and the ultra-Orthodox sat outside. Even today, without any coalition change, but only with the addition of a party or two from the opposition, everything changes because there will be no other choice, Lapid and Gantz prevented and are preventing this, therefore with the claims that will come to themselves only. The left has a serious demographic problem, this situation will get worse and worse. They prefer two dogs and a child instead of two children and a dog, so this is the result.

The ultra-Orthodox have no choice, as a battle must be fought in any situation, so it is better to be done with it now than to wait for the next rounds and even there they will have to go through what they will go through now, there is no choice, they must prepare for war until the matter is over. The yeshivot will continue to take place in any situation even if there is a conscription law that obliges the ultra-Orthodox to enlist, they will not enlist, they would rather sit in prison, and again, not because they don't want to serve, but because the quality of our lives comes before anything else, we will not allow our children to be immersed in a liberal life that educates them to abomination and the like.
סרבני מצפון חרדים וצביעות שמאלנית 760902
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