פרסומים אחרונים במדור "פוליטיקה"

OK! Here is were everyone will agree that the Orthodox Jewish Tradition serves as a good guide not to harass women: All the samples you bring would never occur in a truly Ortho Environment! I wonder what the great Gurwitz would say to this...

You have to read this message from the bottom up!

You show again your total lack of knowledge of what really happenes in the Ortho World, regardless of what They Say or Read. The Fact is that in an Ortho Environment there will be no Massages of women by men, no public discussion of Brassieres etc.

It only means that just like in the PC environment Gay-Bashing is unacceptable, so it is regarding sexual harrassement in the Ortho world.

You have to read this message from the bottom up!

What would you have felt if your
uncle had asked you at your bar mitzva
if you already had a "wet dream"?or
if have hare in a bit lower place...
There are some things you can not do
to a woman.
If, where you work, there is a woman
that seems to be religious
(long dresse/skirts, kissing mezuza etc.)
Would you feel comefortable touching her?
just shaking her hand or a
friendly "kafa"?
I belive not. Because by her appearence
she shows she does not accept this acts from a man.
But not all women feel the need to
wear a skirt.
So how will you know ?
Not only women have intuetion.
You should see, not just look.
does the woman aprove of you being close?
Is she the hugging type ? who likes hugging and friendly kisses?
And even if she is that kind of a woman,
It DOES NOT mean she is "zola" and
"notenet".
Every case to his body
(it sounds better in hebrew).
Reading the articales here
I beleive the male population here have
enough sense to know what is "mutar"
and what is "asur".
Women can also make a difference between
remarks they recieve.
My officer called me once or twice chamuda. But it made it sound like
he was caring for me in a proper manner -
After all he was responsable for me.
I didn't find it offending,
but still i asked him to refer
to me by my name.
Another example - I'm working at a store
and sometimes (not very often) a man calls me motek. So what ?
I am not responsable for his manners,
and I can feel from his acts and figure
of speech that he doesn't want to
offend me.
There are too many cases of sexual abuses.
But we (men & women) need to find
the thin line between arrasment
and a fond word and a kind touch.

How do you type in english so the paragraphs dont come out backward?

Sorry 'bout the English, no Hebrew kbd.

The keyword to sexual harassment is
ENVIRONMENT. Sexual harassment is about
SEXISM not SEX, please open a dictionary.
Israeli society must undergo a substential
change, shake off all archeich notions of
Hevremaniyoot(?) et al. to understand that
an atmoshere that tolerates,
instinctibvely, a derogatory attitude
towards women, or any 'other' group, is
now very much pase.

Actual excerpts on next post, to be read upwards.

Please read top down.
Notice that the rules are spelled out for the
idiot-savant :~)

Policy against workplace harassment
Morgan is committed to maintaining
a collegial and productive work
environment in
which all individuals are treated
with respect and dignity. We want
each employee
to work in a professional atmosphere
that promotes equal opportunity and
prevents
discriminatory practices, including
sexual harassment, harassment on the basis of
any protected characteristic, and
inappropriate conduct that disrupts or interferes
with another's work performance
or creates an intimidating, offensive
, or hostile
environment.

Morgan requires that each employee
exhibit, in his or her conduct and
communication, sound judgment and
respect for the feelings and
sensibilities of
every other employee. It will
not tolerate insulting, degrading,
or exploitative
treatment, whether verbal,
nonverbal, or physical. The firm
expects that all
relationships will be businesslike
and free of bias, prejudice, and
harassment.
Harassment is unacceptable in the
workplace and in any work-related
setting
outside the workplace, such as
during business trips
and business-related social events.

Sexual harassment is a form of sexual
discrimination prohibited by law.
It includes
unwelcome sexual advances, requests
for sexual favors, and other verbal or
physical conduct of a sexual nature
(including discussions or comments), whether
made face to face, in writing,
on the telephone, or by electronic transmission,
where:
•
submission to such conduct
is made either explicitly or implicitly a term or
condition of an individual's employment
•
submission to or rejection of
such conduct by an individual is
used as the basis
for employment decisions
affecting such individual
•
such conduct has the purpose
or effect of interfering unreasonably with an
individual's work performance
or creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive
work environment for other individuals

Depending on the circumstances,
sexual harassment may include but is not
limited to:
•
verbal harassment (e.g.,
epithets, derogatory statements, jokes, threats, slurs)
•
physical harassment (e.g.,
offensive touching, pinching, assault, physical
interference with normal work or movement)
•
visual harassment (e.g., posters,
e-mail, cartoons, calendars, drawings)
•
innuendo and demands for sexual
favors (e.g., leering, whistling, unwelcome
sexual statements, propositions, advances)

It is essential to understand that consenting
relationships within the firm may lead
to unforeseen complications. Such relationships
could be between employees in
senior or supervisory positions and
less-senior or lower-level employees, between
coworkers, or between employees and
other persons connected to Morgan. The
respect and trust accorded a more senior
or supervisory person, as well as the
power held by that person in evaluating
or otherwise supervising an employee,
could diminish the extent to which the
employee feels free to choose a course of
action, particularly one that is
contrary to a supervisory person's expressed
request.

I'll refer to the fifth point:
when I was a young soldier there was that female sergeant
who enjoyed embarrassing me (and some other young soldiers)
by pinching ,touching asking questions and making assumption
about my sex life.
that it was realy unpleasent to me and to all the other guys.
so don't say that men enjoy being a sex object. (we do tend
to say that but most of us don't know what we are talking about
anyway).

by the way the harassment stopped once we simply told that
girl that she was making us feel uncomfortable and asked her
to stop in a way no one could understand otherwise.
I advise wemen that face sexual harassment to take this
course of action. you won't get fired for not doing it with
the boss (unless you got the job in the first place for giving the
impression that you would but this is another problem)

I am sorry about the English.
there is no way to tell when a joke or a friendly gesture
become harassment. In most cases a strict and assertive
act by the woman will stop the harassment or at least
classify the act as one.
the problem is that a women that don't hasitate to use their
femininity in order to get jobs, reduce prices, hitchhike, get
passing drivers to fix their cars, get the network support guy
to fix their computers in higher priority...
(I can go like this forever).
are afraid of loosing their charm and all the benefits it got for
them. you take shortcuts, and this is the price you have to
pay.
this problem will evenutally disappear thanks to the fact that
the number of women in higher offices is increasing and when
women will not be able to use their feminine charms to get things
they will not have to fear shutting it for a few moments of
assertiveness.

girl power!!!

L.G.

we're going anyway.
I wonder if this is what we want - but this is probably the way

by it.
controlled circumstances, and they will stop being so aroused
like a vaccination - expose men to a lot of female nudity under
the view. It just isn't such a big deal for them anymore. It is
naked in the park, etc.) they may become less excited by
naked women very often (e.g., in the sauna, or sunbathing
is achieved it is very simple: When men get used to seeing
From a practical point of view, I think the way this behavior

It's simple. It's also safe.
Men will simply not get so excited by your clothing.
difference in the amount of sexual attention you will get.
a square and show-nothing suit, there will be almost no
with your sexiest skirt and a show-it-all shirt, or else with
It means, for a woman, that whether you come to work
generally colder, inhibited atmosphere. What does it mean?
safer interaction with men, to have worse lovers and a
This means that women should be prepared, in return for
hormones and unable to control themselves properly.
some of them (say, the hottest 10%) will be boiling with
harassment, because if men are allowed to be "hot",
There is no way to have "hot" men and no sexual
to control their sexual instincts. They are "colder".
about that). The reason is, perhaps, that men there learn
countries (e.g., Scandinavia - correct me if I'm wrong
Sexual harassment is less of a problem in less-macho

I want to remark from a different point of view.

I want to remark from a different point of view.

Sexual harassment is less of a problem in
less-macho countries (e.g., Scandinavia - correct
me if I'm wrong about that). The reason is, perhaps,
that men there learn to control their sexual instincts.
They are "colder". There is no way to have "hot"
men and no sexual harassment, because if men are
allowed to be "hot", some of them (say, the
hottest 10%) will be boiling with hormones and
unable to control themselves properly.
This means that women should be prepared, in
return for safer interaction with men, to have "colder"
sex and a generally colder, inhibited atmosphere.
What does it mean? It means, for a woman, that
whether you come to work with your sexiest skirt
and a show-it-all shirt, or else with a square and
show-nothing suit, there will be almost no difference
in the amount of sexual attention you will get. Men
will simply not get so excited by your clothing.
It's simple. It's also safe.

From a practical point of view, I think the way this
behavior is achieved it is very simple: When men get
used to seeing naked women very often (e.g., in the
sauna, or sunbathing naked in the park, etc.) they may
become less excited by the view. It just isn't such a big
deal for them anymore. It is like a vaccination - expose
men to a lot of female nudity under controlled
circumstances, and they will stop being so aroused by it.

I wonder if this is what we want - but this is probably the
way we're going anyway.

L.G.